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13/12/2008, 8:44 AM Lee Joined on 17/03/2008 Posts 9 Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions Hi all. I've started flying lessons at my local flying club but keep having to cancel or postpone them due to bad weather. To combat this problem during winter, and for a bit of fun, i have asked someone to buy me FSX Deluxe for Christmas, and asked someone else to buy me a joystick. The joystick buyer has a very  very small budget so its going to be a cheap one, a MaxFighter F16 U PC. My PC is only 12 mnths old, has dual core and runs Vista. So here come the stupid questions:- 1. This joystick makes no mention of having specific rudder controls,  rudder buttons, or twist grips or anything else, so will i be able to operate the rudder using this joystick? 2 If not then can i operate the rudder using keys on the keyboard whilst at the same time flying with the joystick? 3. If I cant use rudder via joystick or keyboard will i still be able to play properly?   I have never played a flight sim before hence the stupid questions. Thanks all.          Report

14/12/2008, 6:13 PM gavin156633 Joined on 14/12/2008 taunton Posts 2 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions hi there regards to your rudder you can still fly with out it makes it a bit harder than normal to land in cross winds... you can use the buttons on the keyboard but i really would not do did as you will spend more time playing with the rudder than actually flying the plane, if you go in to the aircraft settings you will find on the bottom right hand of the screen auto rudder that will help you out a lot. also i would recommended flying with the 3d cockpit as the 2d one makes it very hard to land and see where you are going, to get the 3d panel push the F9 key. hope this helps you out.    Report

14/12/2008, 7:36 PM Lee Joined on 17/03/2008 Posts 9 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions Gavin Thanks for the advice. Sounds like it will help a lot. Auto-rudder sounds like just the thing for me at first, as I have ZERO experience of flying anything on a Sim. I'll check out the 3d panel as well. Roll on Christmas Day! Thanks Lee   I          Report

02/02/2009, 7:46 AM Morbz Joined on 06/02/2007 UK Posts 263 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions Buy a joystick that yaws as well as the normal pitch and roll, ie you twist it left and right as well as push it forward / pull it backwards and bend it left / right. As for 2D/3D cockpit- you can see the runway better in 2D just by highering the seat, think its shift and enter or something! Morbz    Report

14/02/2009, 6:06 PM Pontius Pilot Joined on 14/02/2009 Posts 3 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions You think you got three stupid questions ... I think I got one stupid answer. Many Joysticks come with a "Twist" Rotation built into them. I have two joysticks that can "Twist" and one that cannot. The Twist motion controls the Rudder ... But ... If you do not have the "Twistable" Joystick, then you can go into settings and "disable" the rudder function so that Microsoft automatically controls the Rudder for you and keeps it perfect ALL the time. As for your other two questions, (being a Newbie myself) I am forced to wash my hands of any possible solutions. Cheers. Pontius Pilot.    Report

15/02/2009, 12:20 PM Paul Dean Joined on 14/04/2003 Posts 2 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions I don't know what others would say to this but I'd seriously think about saving up and buying a yoke and rudder pedals to go with your FSX (eg. CH Products USB pair).  Choose where you buy them carefully and it should cost hardly more than a one hour flying lesson. But I reckon the cost will be outweighed by the fact that you might complete the PPL in fewer hours by being better practised before your lessons and making faster progress.  Obviously it's not 100% realistic, especially with some of the handling work eg. stalls. But even so, sim flying for PPL purposes with this sort of kit is significantly more beneficial for a PPL student than with a joystick. For example crosswind landings - it is possible to get a really good feel of what theoretical control inputs involved. Anything which forces you to think through a procedures beforehand in as near realism as the computer will allow saves a fair bit of time trying to conceptualise what's going on in the air - in my view.  Flight sims really clock up the benefits when practising IMC work further down the line where, early on, much of the time is taken in interpreting what the intruments are telling you and deciding how to react. Practicing that before a training flight on the PA28 sim with pedals/yoke has most definitely helped me make significantly better use of training time in the air.      Report

20/02/2009, 4:20 PM Morbz Joined on 06/02/2007 UK Posts 263 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions Paul that's interesting to learn how its helped you so much.   I personally thought it was a bit stupid to buy a yoke and throttle quadrant with pedals etc because if your going for that much realism- get out there and do it for real.  But what you said makes sense- especially when it comes to IMC work and things like crosswind landings.  I personally think flight sim makes you focus on instruments too much for a newbee PPL, although it can help in many respects!    Report

20/02/2009, 6:34 PM Paul Dean Joined on 14/04/2003 Posts 2 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions See where you're coming from there Morbz.  I've heard instructors say that they can tell a flight sim pilot in a trial lesson cos they can handle the plane reasonably well from an early stage ... but they don't look out of the window!!    Still with what I've seen of the graphics in FSX you can fly pretty good VFR looking out the virtual cockpit window. I have regularly taken friends flying, and if they are keen and trustworthy, I let them have a go at flying the plane from the right seat - obviously being very careful.  If they are exceptionally keen we have a go on the PC flight sim first with yoke and pedals where I make the first timers look out of the 'window' and not focus on the instruments - to simulate what they will have to do for real.   People vary hugely in their starting ability but I find there is a truly remarkable correlation between their ability in handling the plane controls on the sim and their performance in the air. One mate in particular couldn't seem to level the wings on the sim and kept flying with a pronounced left bank, despite me explaining the problem so he could correct it - I thought it was a perspective problem with the sim - but he replicated the problem perfectly in the air!   So I guess I am convinced about the value and would guess that any good instructor would be able to knock out any bad habits that might arise early on. Maybe trial lessons should start with a sim ride! - who knows it might flag up otherwise unpredictable or even dangerous situations which instructors telll me they do face from time to time. Interesting to see what instructors think about this and whether they encourage flight sim practice between lessons?   Any views?    Report

21/02/2009, 12:04 AM Morbz Joined on 06/02/2007 UK Posts 263 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions Yer an instructor could help on this thread! Saying what I said, I like many pilots became interested in flight simulator before I started flying, and as well as having real lessons played on flight sim endless amounts!   Not sure if it did good or not, perhaps helps you with your instrument scans and VOR work, but other than that its more for pleasure in my opinion, and facing back towards part of the thread topic- buying a yoke and rudder peddles etc I think personally is a bit stupid- you may as well just fly properly. Morbz    Report

21/02/2009, 9:00 AM Lee Joined on 17/03/2008 Posts 9 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions Thanks for all the comments. They all seem sensible answers. I have been playing the sim now since Xmas and find at the moment I am happy with my cheapo joystick and letting the Sim handle rudder input. I may let a relative buy me a twist grip joystick for my next birthday in May. In the mean time i'm enjoying all the lessons and missions and i am sure i am learning a lot about everything! When it comes to real flying, I have only logged a few real hours  ( made my first landing at Xmas, without the help of the instructor,....Awesome!!!!). I am trying to channel what little "spare money" there is towards Henlow Flying Club so I dont think i'll be buying a yoke and throttle quadrant any time soon. The funny thing is, with the vast choice of a/c available on the sim, I have a bit of a soft spot for the old Cessna! I guess i enjoy the sound of that old engine purring away! Regards to all   Lee              Report

12/03/2009, 11:38 PM Aviator|Chris Joined on 28/01/2009 EGBW Posts 378 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions When I first met an instructor at my club, I told him that I was a keen simmer... and he said... "oh dear" 8o) I guess they haven't had much joy with Flight Sim users, but I assured him I will keep my mind and eyes wide open regardless of the sim time I have.    Report

23/03/2009, 8:50 AM proviation Joined on 13/06/2008 Dunstable Posts 6 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions I don't think it's a case of not having much joy with flight sim users in that they're lacking in ability- I think, by experience, a lot of instructors have simply never used the software, and there's a hint of turning-up the nose at the fresh-faced student who has been 'playing games' on his/her pc, and therefore 'has a lot to learn!' ' I think seriously that one cannot argue with the added benefits a flight sim can bring- my most frequently cited being the ability to replicate emergencies and unusual procedures- particularly failure of key instruments and accidental flight into IMC. I/we as an organisation (Proviation) will be trying to build a Flight Sim community within the real-world pilots to foster a greater understanding of these benefits. We also stock a wide range of the most realistic software alongside 'normal' flight equipment. If anyone would like to come onboard and perhaps write for us in favour of Flight Sim I would love to hear from you! Nick    Report

23/03/2009, 6:09 PM Aviator|Chris Joined on 28/01/2009 EGBW Posts 378 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions Thanks for the informative reply, Nick! I certainly feel that it has benefits to my learning, especially on the subjects you highlighted above. I also found it great for understanding VOR's, Navigation and Precedure practice etc. My Engineering (Automation) side wants me to understand how the equipment works to obtain its information and my IT Administrator side is great for understanding the newer Glass Cockpit style arrangements and navigating them. I guess sometimes I can be a pain in the bum because I want to know everything about an individual instrument. Chris.    Report

29/09/2011, 6:35 PM southcoast sb Joined on 27/05/2011 Posts 9 Re: Never Played a Flight Sim so got 3 (stupid) Questions Hi all I am currently unable to fly due to a foot injury, so it is now 5 weeks since I last flew, and probably another 2 til I can, which is annoying because I was one dual off before my CCQ flight according to my instructor. However, as the injury has started to heal, I have increasingly being using FSX and the 152 that I purchased for it, to keep my hand (and head!!) in. I have rudder pedals, and yoke, and feel that it helps me to keep a 'feel' of what I should be doing according to my training. Coupled with decent photo scenery and well modelled aerodromes, head tracking and the like, I can still practice my VFR routes that I've done so far. I'm a big fan of simming, especially with what is available these days, and I think, as most people have mentioned, will help when it comes to IMC rating, though it's been most valuable for practicing cross country exercises. When I told the flying instructor on my trial flight that I had 100's of hours on sim, he smiled. When we got down, he told me he was very surprised that I had not flown (for real) before.... With the right information and resources, personally I think there is no doubt that the modern PC sim has its rightful place as a training aid. Happy landings all    Report

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